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Oh my NEIL! Oh my SON!

Hey all, sorry for the slight delay; I know I had planned on having this in last week, but Memorial Day hijinks got away from me.  But notice: I still delivered, and I make no excuses.  

To start, if you caught the film reference in my title, kudos. There’s nothing like watching the dad from That 70’s Show howl out in pain as Dr. Wilson from House lies half-naked on the floor of the family study. Oh Mr. Keating, you taught them everything…except how to deal with real life.


Of course, today’s post is not about Neil Perry, but instead, Neil Gaiman, everybody’s favorite comic writer-slash-novelist-slash-screenwriter-slash-weirdo British dude. I actually enjoy Mr. Gaiman’s work for the most part, or at least, I enjoy what I’ve read. The Sandman series, Neverwhere, Good Omens, Anansi Boys – I found all of these entertaining to greater or lesser extents. I took my girlfriend to see Coraline and we both found it delightfully whimsical. Of course, I was also high like it was 1988 and my name was Robert Downey, Jr. (Fair warning: inhaling bee killer and then chugging a bottle of children’s cough syrup is not a good idea, even if you do get to be the person who invents an underground drug cocktail known as a “Bee Sting.” That’s patented, by the way.)


Unfortunately, Mr. Gaiman has once again done something that I find distasteful, and it’s – yes, you guessed it – the defending of George “Chubblebumps” Martin’s long-delayed completion of ADWD. Now if you haven’t read NG’s comments on the subject, you may read them here. Go do that, and then continue as I provide the Official Response as penned by those of us here at FTBG.


A fan named Gareth writes in with two multi-part questions regarding George R.R. Martin, the delay of ADWD, and Gaiman’s opinion on the responsibility (or lack thereof) of the writer to his or her audience. Gareth makes it clear that he is frustrated by the lack of information regarding ADWD, and with Martin’s seemingly walrus-like inability to move off of a sunny poolside rock for more than a few minutes a day. So here’s question #1 from Gareth:

With blogs and twitter and other forms of social media do you think the audience has too much input when it comes to scrutinising the actions of an artist? If you had announced a new book two years ago and were yet to deliver do you think avoiding the topic on your blog would lead readers to believe you were being "slack"? By blogging about your work and life do you have more of a responsibility to deliver on your commitments?

To which Neil Gaiman replies:




Now maybe it’s silly of me to expect someone who spends his professional life as a writer to come up with a slightly more detailed response, but even if that’s so, is it unreasonable of me to have Mr. Gaiman specify which question he is replying to? Because right now, I can read that response as:

“No, the audience does not have too much input,” or

“No, avoiding discussion of a book I announced would not cause my readers to think I was slacking,” or

“No, I do not have more of a responsibility to deliver on my commitments just because I blog about my work.”


I’m guessing that maybe Neil was shooting for #3, but if that’s the case, then he conveniently ignored the first two parts of the question. Nice job. Very professional.


Now let’s look at the larger issue, that which is raised in question #2 from Gareth:

When writing a series of books, like Martin is with "A Song of Ice and Fire" what responsibility does he have to finish the story? Is it unrealistic to think that by not writing the next chapter Martin is letting me down, even though if and when the book gets written is completely up to him?

To which NG responds:

Yes, it's unrealistic of you to think George is "letting you down".

At this point, NG begins to ramble on, using the usual tangents and tired arguments that we have all come to know and love in this discussion. I will intersperse Neil’s relevant comments with our now-familiar responses here at FTBG.


NG: George R.R. Martin is not your bitch.

It’s nice that Neil attempts to demonize the questioner here, an age-old rhetorical strategy that, unfortunately for him, doesn’t work on those of us with IQs higher than the average highway speed limit. The statement makes the assumption that Gareth, and those of us like him who have expectations for authors who make promises, are under the mistaken opinion that the author is our bitch. When instead, having expectations for someone who makes promises and projections for you is an entirely natural and reasonable thing to do

Every day I deal with writers who make promises to me about deadlines and when they will turn things in. Does that mean that, when they don’t turn things in as promised, it is unreasonable for me to feel let down and lied to? Not at all. But NG and GRRM seem to think differently, as if daring to have expectations for the delicate genius (thanks, Seinfeld) is entirely out of the question. Those of us who work in the real world know differently.  And frankly, for Gaiman to call his blog post "Entitlement Issues," and then talk about how he and other writers have seemingly no responsibility to anyone but themselves, is irony at its sickening finest.

NG: People are not machines. Writers and artists aren't machines.


Could we get more melodramatic? Maybe Neil doesn’t read FTBG, which is a shame, because I’m sure he would really enjoy our supportive attitudes. But once again, I point out the obvious: there are plenty of writers and “artists” (I’m using that term loosely, although I’m sure Neil isn’t) who demonstrate that they can produce material regularly and not sacrifice quality. This does not mean that you have to crank out a book a month, but, for comparative purposes, let’s consider the relative productivity of our two writers in question.


Now, I thought about providing a list of Neil’s works, but it was TOO LONG TO LIST. (Are you still sure writers aren’t machines, Neil?) But Mr. Gaiman, age 49, has this bibliography to speak of:


Note that Gaiman’s bibliography includes six novels published between 1990 and now, eight young adult novels written since 1997, twenty-four other prose works, eight screenplays and/or tv scripts, and oh yeah, who knows how many graphic novels and comic books.


Similarly, George R.R. Martin managed to somehow produce regular episodes of Beauty and the Beast and The New Twilight Zone during the 80’s and into the 90’s. It was almost like he was – dare I say it? – a machine. No wait, I take that back – he was like a professional writer who is under contract. And during that same period, he came out with four collections of work and three novels.


Now, since the decision to start ASOIAF, he has produced…well, let’s see. Three good novels –all published within 6 years, mind you -- and one shitty one that apparently took five years to get out. That was four years ago

You know, one could make the argument that when writers act like machines, they actually turn out better work. (Remember Stephen King? You have to write every day.)   Best explanation: the dude is out of ideas, or has written himself into a corner.

You're complaining about George doing other things than writing the books you want to read as if your buying the first book in the series was a contract with him: that you would pay over your ten dollars, and George for his part would spend every waking hour until the series was done, writing the rest of the books for you.

No such contract existed. You were paying your ten dollars for the book you were reading, and I assume that you enjoyed it because you want to know what happens next.

I agree with Neil in theory that yes, I was actually paying my ten dollars for that physical object known as “Book One.” However, I bought Book One because it had a number attached to it -- that number, of course, being ONE.  On the cover, in a very pretty font, it said Book One of the Song and Fire and Ice series. If you don’t want people to expect a second, and third, and fourth, then don’t market it as a series. Just come out with new stories using the same characters, stuff like “The Hedge Knight,” when you feel like it. 


Otherwise, here’s how I see it: you wrote 1/7 of a really long novel, you sent it out for publication, and now you find it obnoxious that people are daring to expect you to write the other 6/7ths of the novel. Seems a tad silly.

It seems to me that the biggest problem with series books is that either readers complain that the books used to be good but that somewhere in the effort to get out a book every year the quality has fallen off, or they complain that the books, although maintaining quality, aren't coming out on time.

I believe that it is possible to produce quality books on a regular and reasonable schedule. I’m not sure if I’m being irrational on that point, but let me know what you think. But in my opinion, the real problem is that most series writers don’t maintain firm enough control over their product, allowing the story to go into too many directions or into unplanned territories. They add in all sorts of characters and subplots and details that they hadn’t planned for – which is fine, that’s bound to happen – but then find out that their original plans and intents have changed or don’t work quite as well as they had originally. So, the story starts to meander, the energy of the first few books starts to peter out because there was never a definite ending in mind, and people end up writing a five- or six- or seven-book series that would have made a really good trilogy. That’s one thing I can say about Tolkien – that dude had fucking control of that shit from day one.


So what’s the solution? Plan your shit out better, that’s what.

Both of these things make me glad that I am not currently writing a series, and make me even gladder that the decade that I did write series things, in Sandman, I was young, driven, a borderline workaholic, and very fortunate.


So in other words, you were everything that George R.R. Martin is not. Glad we got that cleared up. 

For me, I would rather read a good book, from a contented author. I don't really care what it takes to produce that.

Some writers need a while to charge their batteries, and then write their books very rapidly. Some writers write a page or so every day, rain or shine. Some writers run out of steam, and need to do whatever it is they happen to do until they're ready to write again. Sometimes writers haven't quite got the next book in a series ready in their heads, but they have something else all ready instead, so they write the thing that's ready to go, prompting cries of outrage from people who want to know why the author could possibly write Book X while the fans were waiting for Book Y.

And some writers don’t do anything but appear at ComicCons and make excuses for why they aren’t doing anything. 

I remember hearing an upset comics editor telling a roomful of other editors about a comics artist who had taken a few weeks off to paint his house. The editor pointed out, repeatedly, that for the money the artist would have been paid for those weeks' work he could easily have afforded to hire someone to paint his house, and made money too. And I thought, but did not say, “But what if he wanted to paint his house?”

Then he should have painted his house before accepting a contract for work. Again, the idea that commercial writers are somehow above the demands of the business world is such an arrogant and disheartening attitude position to take that it makes me physically ill when I hear it. 


Then NG goes to this argument:

And sometimes, and it's as true of authors as it is of readers, you have a life. People in your world get sick or die. You fall in love, or out of love. You move house. Your aunt comes to stay. You agreed to give a talk half-way around the world five years ago, and suddenly you realise that that talk is due now. Your last book comes out and the critics vociferously hated it and now you simply don't feel like writing another. Your cat learns to levitate and the matter must be properly documented and investigated. There are deer in the apple orchard. A thunderstorm fries your hard disk and fries the backup drive as well...


But for those of us who actually keep to our responsibilities, you can feel free to use my helpful, real-world version of Neil’s philosophy:


And sometimes, and it's as true of authors as it is of readers, you have a life. People in your world get sick or die, and then you get back to work.  You fall in love, or out of love, and then you get back to work. You move house, and then you get back to work.. Your aunt comes to stay, and you tell her that you work out of the house, so you send her on a three-day trip to the nearest alligator ranch. You agreed to give a talk half-way around the world five years ago, and suddenly you realize that that talk is due now, because you are not very good at planning or organizing your time, so you stop agreeing to give such things in the future if you can’t handle them. Your last book comes out and the critics vociferously hated it and now you simply don't feel like writing another, but for some reason you feel indebted to the thousands of people who have supported you financially over the years, so you finish the next book. Your cat learns to levitate and the matter must be properly documented and investigated, so you play with the cat for five fucking minutes and then get back to work. There are deer in the apple orchard, so you start eating venison and drinking cider while you write. A thunderstorm fries your hard disk and fries the backup drive as well, so you kill yourself, because your whole life has pretty much been wasted if you’re a writer who can’t spend ten bucks on a flash drive.

And life is a good thing for a writer. It's where we get our raw material, for a start. We quite like to stop and watch it.


Raw material? This sounds dangerously like NG is making an argument for George’s trips to Arby’s to start counting as “research.” (“Hmmm…I’m writing a scene that takes place at yet another fancy banquet, but I just can’t seem to make it come to life. Oh how, oh how will I research such a thing??? Ooh, look, the cookie truck!”)


(Liotta’s note: In my estimation, George’s neighborhood contains a cookie truck. I’m sure you can guess what it sells.)

The economics of scale for a writer mean that very few of us can afford to write 5,000 page books and then break them up and publish them annually once they are done. So writers with huge stories, or ones that, as Sandman did, grow in the telling, are going to write them and have them published as they go along.

And if you are waiting for a new book in a long ongoing series, whether from George or from Pat Rothfuss or from someone else...
Wait. Read the original book again. Read something else. Get on with your life. Hope that the author is writing the book you want to read, and not dying, or something equally as dramatic. And if he paints the house, that's fine.

What if he could have painted an entire subdivision in the time people have been waiting? Can they get upset then?

And Gareth, in the future, when you see other people complaining that George R.R. Martin has been spotted doing something other than writing the book they are waiting for, explain to them, more politely than I did the first time, the simple and unanswerable truth: George R. R. Martin is not working for you.


Or, more to the point, George R.R. Martin is not working, period.


( 63 comments — Leave a comment )
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May. 26th, 2009 07:17 pm (UTC)

Yo Liotta

Gotta hand it to you dude, you take the arguments given by GRRMorons and simply out twist their logic... this is a superb post & one which simply makes NG look like a[what do they call it in British] PRAT!!!

I recently got into an argument with another author on Facebook for the same NG post and while we went back and forth over the same issue, end result was that he banned/removed me from his FB page.... well that settles it I must have done some good when I posted your "In ofense of GRRM" as a link for him to understand the other side.

Thanks again for the long post... always makes my day intresting!

May. 26th, 2009 08:10 pm (UTC)
"I recently got into an argument with another author on Facebook for the same NG post and while we went back and forth over the same issue, end result was that he banned/removed me from his FB page.... well that settles it I must have done some good when I posted your "In ofense of GRRM" as a link for him to understand the other side."

This seems to be becoming a popular response from authors concerning bothersome fans. They're too much trouble? Are their words hitting too close to home and you can't come up with a good response? Push the red button! Delete the bastards' posts, then ban them!

How *dare* they expect professionalism in the form of met deadlines, or even even infrequent updates worthy of the name?! Don't they realize that your work can't be rushed and that all this nagging might upset your delicate artistic sensibilities?!

- Krafus
May. 26th, 2009 07:24 pm (UTC)
He may not be working for me..
But he is working for his PUBLISHER. He is most likely under CONTRACT to produce these "grand works" of fiction. It is his JOB.

The only reason GRRM has not been dropped by his publisher is because of the success of his series. His publisher is simply praying every day that he finally decides to deliver, because whether the publisher or the fans like it or not ASOIAF is a freaking gold mine. I personally think that GRRM is a fucking bastard for holding literally everyone who has come into contact with him hostage over this fucking book. Name someone involved in any way with this series who does not have an opinion about this or isn't getting screwed over by this debacle?

I have never even heard of NG, but if he pulled the same crap that GRRM pulls he would be dropped faster than a lit match burning your hand.

This is a joke. If ADWD is not the best book in the series then I can say (although probably not truthfully..fuck my desire for high fantasy and jesus-like ability to forgive) that I will drop this series. Why wait in anguish for another 5 years for a terrible book? Who could not write a great book in 5 years when you're already given a great setting, intriguing characters, and more than half a plot (seriously EVERYTHING YOU NEED TO WRITE A BOOK)?
May. 26th, 2009 09:53 pm (UTC)
Re: He may not be working for me..
I doubt Gaiman would be dropped for pulling the same crap that GRRM pulls, if he was to pull it. (I believe he said in that same blog post that he missed a deadline recently, and while he wasn't exactly crying into his beer over it, he was remorseful. And that's the first time in, like, ever.) You've probably heard of him but don't know it, anyway - Mirrormask wasn't a big deal film-wise but the buzz about Coraline was prodigious, and I think he wrote the screenplay and know he wrote the book it's based on. He could actually get away with this 'missing deadlines' crap a lot better than someone who has published so comparatively few best-sellers.
Re: He may not be working for me.. - (Anonymous) - May. 26th, 2009 10:49 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: He may not be working for me.. - thessalian - May. 26th, 2009 11:36 pm (UTC) - Expand
May. 26th, 2009 11:07 pm (UTC)
Thank you for this.
May. 27th, 2009 12:28 am (UTC)
I have three (3) words for you: Steve Rune Lundin…
also known as Steven Erikson. He is the author of the seven (7) books in his Malazan Book of the Fallen series. After the success of his 1999 offering “Gardens of the Moon” he announced he had nine more books to offer and that he would publish one a year. I immediately thought by “one a year” he meant “not really.” Buzz me right out of the game. He’s been pretty much bang on since then. How the hell could he do that?

Read this from an online interview from last year. It is pretty telling:

Question: - Now that many purists and aficionados consider you one of the best fantasy authors in the world, is there added pressure when it comes down to writing a new addition to the series?

Answer: - If there's pressure, it's to do with time management -- the edit of The Bonehunters especially involved a lot of back and forth, given its length -- which meant I had to drop everything else at that time. Some other manuscripts needed some editing as well, then TOR sent me on a signing/reading junket down the US West Coast which while fun took five days out of my writing schedule. That kinda pressure, sure. The other kind, dealing with the expectations of readers, the answer is no, not at all. The thing's mapped out so I know what I'm doing (I hope that simply relieves your readers rather than coming across as boastful -- really, I do know what I'm doing!) and I can see the light at the tunnel's end. As mentioned earlier, I'm fairly certain I will surprise readers with future events, with enough twists and turns to keep them reading.

Here is the linky-link: http://fantasyhotlist.blogspot.com/2006/01/new-steven-erikson-interview.html

Interesting: “time management” because that’s what all of us non-Axel Rose types have to do – look at the freakin clock and punch in. “I had to drop everything” because it was his freakin’ job ladies and gentlemen. The “thing’s mapped out” because if you are going to do this thing for a living you better know what the hell it is that you are doing. But this is the kicker: “I’m fairly certain I will surprise readers with future events, with enough twists and turns to keep them reading.” What does this mean? He will seek to work at his craft and produce something that in and of itself keeps fans engaged because otherwise who really will give a shit?!?

I enjoy ASOFAI far more than Erickson’s writing. He tends to give me a headache more often than not. However, he is a professional writer and is true to his vision and his promises and he writes interesting stuff. So I buy it.

Too bad George wants to be loved and coddled more than he wants to write. Maybe Steve could drop by and give George a couple of lessons. Oh wait, George is probably having a nap. Nevermind.

May. 27th, 2009 08:24 am (UTC)
Mr Lundin's writing schedule
Mr Lundin's books are a bad example, because they actually suffer from their creator's demanding schedule. The Malazan-series lacks editing; the last five books could have been 100 to 200 pages shorter without loss of quality - if anything they would have been more dense and less garrulous.
Re: Mr Lundin's writing schedule - (Anonymous) - May. 27th, 2009 06:51 pm (UTC) - Expand
Better yet: - (Anonymous) - May. 28th, 2009 08:14 pm (UTC) - Expand
May. 27th, 2009 01:59 am (UTC)
I've recently been going back and forth with a GRRM devotee. Now, maybe this is because I've just recently been rereading Harry Potter, but he really reminds me of Percy. Just substitute GRRM for the Ministry and you've got the same person. No, whatever GRRM says is gold. He is never wrong. If he wants to take that long, it's ok because he's a great writer and he's always right.
Kill me already.
May. 27th, 2009 03:51 am (UTC)
What about all the poor bastards who bought a freaking WATER DAMAGED POS from you because you said you were out? Here would be a great way to reach out to your fans and get some positive publicity:

offer those signed copies to your fans for FREE.

Sure you may lose out on a couple grand on the books, but you're GRRM, surely the loyalty of your fans would count for more?
May. 27th, 2009 04:06 am (UTC)
Haha nice, posted about it while I was typing.
And no, George's only loyalty is to the All Mighty $$$$.
Re: OMG MORE RPG MADNESS - kuminiac - May. 27th, 2009 11:56 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: OMG MORE RPG MADNESS - (Anonymous) - Jun. 2nd, 2009 12:20 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: OMG MORE RPG MADNESS - (Anonymous) - May. 27th, 2009 02:47 pm (UTC) - Expand
May. 27th, 2009 04:04 am (UTC)
1) Love the 'Dead Poets Society' reference.

2) For those of you fortunate enough as of this post to have ventured onto dearest Georgie's Not-A-Blog, he's found more of those useless RPG books WITHOUT water damage! Oh happy days! How can one possibly refuse the Master?! Oh, wait, if they have a life and aren't taken in by his bullshit.
May. 27th, 2009 08:41 am (UTC)
Bravo! Very well done!

The one thing that stuck out at me is the line: George R.R. Martin is not working for you.

Who is he working for then? His publisher? His editor? Ty? He's got to be working for someone. Ultimately, everyone has a boss -- someone who's writing the checks, right? I don't buy this fruity "he's working for himself, for his art" bullshit either. This ain't high-literature, Nancy. He's not Tolstoy or Hemingway. And if he were, he would still get shit from people if he kept missing his fucking deadlines.

No, I think he does work for us, the fans. We're the patrons of his work and its our fucking dollars that are buying those faggoty miniatures that adorn his new library. Its to us that he's made promise after promise of a new and better book to come. And its us that he's laughing at, while he deletes our questions and comments about ADWD. I don't care if I get arrested, I'm stealing ADWD when it comes out or checking it out from the library. I'll be damned if he gets another penny from me. And I bet it blows dogs for quarters, just like Feast!
May. 27th, 2009 12:18 pm (UTC)
I love your editted version of Gaimans "Things that can happen to an author".

And then you get back to work. Truer, more depressing words were never uttered.
May. 27th, 2009 04:28 pm (UTC)
Neil, I can see where you may want to be chauvinistic in defending "one" of your own . . . but do you know what and who you are defending? You've expended more of your time than he is worth.
May. 27th, 2009 07:48 pm (UTC)
The publish date on Amazon for ADWD is now:

(December 31, 2035)

I wonder if HBO thinks George RR Martin is their bitch and whether they'll go ahead with sinking jillions of dollars into a TV mini-series that doesn't appear to have a chance to be completed in Bill Nelson's lifetime.
May. 27th, 2009 08:19 pm (UTC)
Nah, they'll just have the staff writers finish the ending and it'll appear on telly before it does in a book.

May. 27th, 2009 07:57 pm (UTC)



May. 27th, 2009 08:02 pm (UTC)
you live in detroit and wear boots? not really reppin the 313 are you....
Re: BUNCH OF PUSSIES - silanah - May. 27th, 2009 08:20 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: BUNCH OF PUSSIES - (Anonymous) - May. 27th, 2009 08:34 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: BUNCH OF PUSSIES - grrrm - May. 27th, 2009 09:01 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: BUNCH OF PUSSIES - kuminiac - May. 27th, 2009 09:52 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: BUNCH OF PUSSIES - (Anonymous) - May. 27th, 2009 10:52 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: BUNCH OF PUSSIES - dirty_gil - May. 27th, 2009 11:52 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: BUNCH OF PUSSIES - steady_01 - May. 28th, 2009 02:27 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: BUNCH OF PUSSIES - (Anonymous) - May. 28th, 2009 05:08 pm (UTC) - Expand
May. 28th, 2009 12:01 am (UTC)
I agree that it's probably the most satirical post ever or it's a reflection of the general IQ of GRRM's bootlickers these days. Another great post Liotta, I was starting to wonder if you were going to respond to NG's comments or if you'd lost your belly for fighting the good fight. Jules
May. 28th, 2009 04:30 am (UTC)
Dreadful tought

it is always a pleasure to come here and read the last messages. You are so good at it that i might someday start a blog called "Write the next post Joe and Ray" just to push you to post more !
However, here is my dreadful thought:
and what if George finished the book ? as much as i am eager to read ADWD, i am beginning to think that i will not enjoy it as much as reading FTBG. So maybe the better thing would be for George never to finish the book so i can enjoy coming here for a long time.
Let's start a "don't finish the book George" blog.
thanks again for this live journal
JP the Z
May. 28th, 2009 12:32 pm (UTC)
Re: Dreadful tought
Don't worry. There's always the chance that Dance will turn out to be as lackluster as AFFC, and then you can expect us to dissect the book and pour salt into the wounds just to see how loudly it can scream.

And even if it's actually good, I very much doubt that GRRM will change his ways (both as a writer and as a blog writer), which are certain to continue to annoy some people around here. I cannot speak for the other FTBG regulars, but for me at least, Dance's lateness is only one of the reasons (though admittedly the biggest) why I've become a detractor of his.

As for the "BUNCH OF PUSSIES" moron, I note that you lack the courage to sign your own name or provide a way to contact you when making an offensive post - classic signs of a would-be Internet bully. Tell you what, I'll match your size 11 boots with something that's clearly alien to you, a dictionary, and I bet that even with one hand tied behind my back I'll have you curled on the floor and screeching for mommy within a minute.

- Krafus
May. 28th, 2009 01:48 pm (UTC)

Hey Guys

Here's another fellow whos intrest regarding ADWD is similar to yours http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/blogs/doc_nebula/2009/05/life-under-the-bridge.php?ref=reccafe

May be we should have a FTBG campaign on all social networking sites as well, what say Liotta?

May. 28th, 2009 05:01 pm (UTC)
Pray tell what grade school (because I'm sure he got no further) did Motor Dawgg attend? Because apparently he was "taught" that every time you add "ing" to a word, you also double the previous consonant. (??)

Personally I don't mind a Martinite stopping by to defend the author, but Lordy, please let it be in some sort of articulate post with at least one intelligent comment.

Roland of Gilead
(no subject) - grrrm - Jun. 6th, 2009 04:36 pm (UTC) - Expand
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